Which way to turn?
After spending last weekend at the Maker Faire showing our controllers and Builder series, I talked to a LOT of people from a lot of different backgrounds. One guy wanted was looking deep into our Brain, mulling the possibility of converting the signals from the LED control to control mechanical actuators. A few other people liked the BYOB boards as a way to prototype things for projects that had nothing to do with using our Brain or MIDI or music. But I also talked to a lot of musicians who had feedback and general ideas about controllers, with thoughts about how those could be incorporated into our block and Ohm64. (There’s something about having all the circuits spread out on a table that makes people want to talk about what’s inside the box!) One of the more common questions we get about our controllers is “what about encoders?”*
There are definitely advantages to encoders in today’s software driven world. Encoders’ values can be updated and changed on the fly, adapting instantly to whatever software context you are in. It’s like getting a motorized fader, but without the large, fussy, expensive mechanism that a motorized fader requires. Plus, they have all those LEDs that make it seem more high tech!
But this flexibility comes at the cost of losing the feel of a pot’s definite position. For example, if you want to drop the low eq of a track for bar, it’s really helpful to have the tangible stop at the bottom – that wall gives your hand something to relate to and “get inside the mix.” It’s a subtle distinction, but it’s important.
When it comes down to it, it’s all about your experience with control. We design our controllers to give you the best feeling when controlling, and this is one reason we have rotary pots. However, the value of encoders is definitely not lost on us. Since I didn’t get to see all of you at Maker Faire, I’d love to hear your thoughts? What do you like best? How do you deal with the compromises that you have to make?
*Rotary pots output “absolute” values, and have a distinct physical start and end point. If you turn the knob to the center from the endpoint 90 degrees, the value will always be “42″. Encoders output “relative” values, and have no physical start and stop points – they are often referred to as “endless.” The value that comes from an encoder can be updated with a message to the controller, so if an encoder is turned 90 degrees, stopping at value “42,” a message could be sent that makes the encoder’s value “25″ so the next time you turn it to the right, it starts increasing from “25″ rather than “42″. For more information, visit the Wikipedia article.
I used to be all over 1 bit rotary encoders.
But I got schooled recently on encoders : NO NO NO!
Limited pots in live performance are critical – you need to fell the position, no time to look.
I thought that limited pots was gonna kill me on my OHM64, I was wrong!
In the past few weeks everything I thought valid got flipped around and I have a greater understanding of the professional scene in Ableton. (I am transitioning from playing keyboards / synth in real bands). Most of the “hot topics” are all spun by the hobbyists.
I now know why the touring pros don’t really care about the glamor items like the Launchpad and APC. They are starter units, not instruments – like the Livid selection.
IMO I believe having a good balance of each is important. There are times just like the article says that having a “tangible stop” point is crucial. However, an encoder can handle both situations, whereas of course a pot can not. In a program like Live, I prefer encoders. Plus encoders handle soft takeover better. In the end, you don’t really know until you start boogieing with the apps. And as a manufacturer it is not always wise to assume you understand exactly what your customer needs. Everyone uses things in crazy and unpredictable ways sometimes.
It would be great if someone invented a controller that had replaceable controls. That way you could just populate the controller the way that suits you.
Ed Rhone
http://www.edrhonemusic.com
http://www.openlabs.com
I guess it all depends on your needs. Obviously there are arguments for both but I’d love to see the livid controllers have the option of endless encoders with led rings.
I guess for live stuff I can see the argument for wanting pots but for controlling vsts and switching though different control mappings ect I find pots quite a bit of hassle.
Although this is slightly off the subject, I’d love to see you guys make a smaller apc25 if it had the new red box feature and endless encoders. heres my crappy photoshop idea
[IMG]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/ElectroBeanz/ohm25.jpg[/IMG]
Agreed that the tangible bounds of pots can be very helpful.
But I find rotary encoders preferable for navigating large discrete datasets, such as scene or patch lists. The rotation necessary to increment or decrement the selector by one value could be customizable, and nonlinear acceleration could be applied — therefore you’re not limited to “one rotation == traversal of the entire dataset”.
I’d like to see both pots and encoders on future Livid controllers. On the current Ohm64 layout, I think it might make sense to replace with encoders either the 4 pots on the right, or a row of 4 pots in the bank on the left. Or drop one or more pairs of the F-buttons and replace each pair with a single rotary encoder.
Olly: That looks like a perfect DIY project!
hi again, did my image link work? if not ill make a 3d model and sent it via your competition thing
I think it will be refreshing to have pots again, but I will miss my encoders for some things such as scrolling through scenes and tempos.
As was suggested, maybe a balance of both?
This is such a great dialog.
I see 3 faces –
1-Live performer – the athlete. Reliable, bullet proof, geared for all environments (day/night)
2-Producer – the researcher or scientist, works in studio mostly
3-Other. Using device for video or non-majority use.
Most people cross over all 3.
You will never please all of us, but you are doing better than the others.
–M
[...] have also been some other developments and discussions on encoders vs. potentiometers, we’d love to hear your feedback on that as well. For the past few months we have been [...]